European Disunity - Stefan Molyneux Ethical Anarchy Panel: Stefan 1 day ago   1:30:55

Share
Stefan Molyneux
Stefan Molyneux is interviewed on TNS Radio about European public debt, the shattering of the European economic Union, and the endless fiscal failures of Western democracies. Freedomain Radio is the largest and most popular philosophy show on the web - http://www.freedomainradio.com

http://www.tnsradio.ning.com

Comments 105 Comments

MrsNikkolas D
I don´t blame the anglos for taking advatage over everyone else, it is not their fault that they are smarter and more cunning than all the others. Only a handfull of countries/people have done something to change that, most just went along to the point that everybody is forced to participate. If you refuse the treatment is simple:sanctions, color revolutions, embargos and if it doesn´t work direct invasion.
SpaceGoatFarts
Well, i agree that Capitalism as a system has its problems, huge ones. But erm... isn't blaming "Anglos" kinda the same as blaming the state? Creating a false point of blame? To describe a group as being composed of individuals who all behave and think the same, well, thats nonsensical isn't it? Or do i misunderstand you?
MrsNikkolas D
Capitalism is wounderful if it not for the state everything would be a a paradise. That is not how reality works asigning all the problems to single source is conforting but it does not work like that. Capitalism is a anglo system and it reflects the anglo mind, it a exploitative, anti-human, anti-nature destroctive system and that is how anglos behave individualy and as a group. The system has been forced on the world by force not consent and the only thing keeping it is force not legitimacy.
William H
We should call the state of chaos and rioting and no stagnant leader, discordarchy.

The space thing you talked about reminded me of Carl Sagan thought on extra terrestrial intelligent life forms can not be Violante because they would have distorted them them self they were Violante. These aliens in Sci-fi are off the Greek philosophy nature in mans images. We anthropomorphised aliens and the warring aliens are really us with our exact issues but a hundred years ahead.
Glutton For Sex
The more the situation continues to go from bad to worse over here in Europe, the more I'm happy that my country (Norway) decided to stay out of the Union and observe things from a comfortable distance.

The bad news is, if something real bad goes down, we'll almost inevitably become dragged into it.
SpaceGoatFarts
But i agree, materialism is more complex than "its the fault of advertising". I just think that is only one thing that reinforces it, and ads are a by-product of competition. The only example i can think of where a person gets everything for "free" is as a child. Children get their needs and their wants met, for free. Should that automatically provoke them to grow up materialistic? :-( Where does the message sink in that having 'things' is most important? It seems to come from a lot of places.
SpaceGoatFarts
I'm trying to imagine what a world full of stuff for free would look like... it's hard! lol... if say, a particular fashion item was available for free to anyone who wanted it, then wouldn't it lose some of its appeal or value to people? He talks about materialism as people basing worth or self-identity on 'what you own'. If everyone owns, for free, the same things, then it lessens the products ability to be used to define or differentiate ourselves from those who don't have it.
SpaceGoatFarts
It was slipped in there when he was talking about why people have become very materialistic, "state-driven capitalism" being one of the factors he thought caused it. It stuck out to me. I'm not a fan of how governments, any government, are behaving in any way, but i just can't see how the state being involved in capitalism is any more implicated in driving materialism than just capitalism on its own...
I dunno... just struck me as driving an agenda rather than understanding materialism?
Blomsternisse
ignore it. it was a mistake
SpaceGoatFarts
Well, i'm sorry that this long winded conversation hasn't enabled you to understand me. I've tried my best. My only point was that stefan's distinction that materialism was caused by "State-driven" capitalism, was to absolve "Capitalism" on its own from being in any way implicated. Other ppl got what i meant. Sorry you didn't.
I agree, best to leave it there, but i don't understand why i have a notification saying you added me as a contact. Was that an accident? Shall i ignore it?
Blomsternisse
And we are back to were we started...

*Sigh*

I got nothing more to say to you, if you want the last word thats fine but I won't speak to you no more
SpaceGoatFarts
I mean, i could write an essay to explain every sentence of every comment to prevent people taking me up wrong, but i kinda expect people not to just put words in my mouth and then get angry and insulting.
SpaceGoatFarts
Its certainly rammed throats... i don't want ad pop ups, etc but i can't prevent them from turning up everywhere? I'm not implying that just because a pop up appears i'm somehow being controlled to buy it, but it clearly influences some people to buy it or else the company wouldn't be paying for advertising, & being quite forceful about making sure those ads are everywhere.
Greed- well pursuit of profit does fit the term greed. Companies don't stop pursuing it and say "i've enough, thanks"??
SpaceGoatFarts
lol... Nope, my comment wasn't a comment in support of government. My point was, that materialism isn't 100% caused by any state. The reason i said it was because Stefan made the distinction that "state-driven" capitalism was a contributing factor to materialism, as opposed to 'any kind of capitalism'. I don't see how capitalism isn't just as connected to materialism through advertising, whether there's a state or not. Can you? I mean, advertising must have an effect in driving demand?
Blomsternisse
"Rammed down your throat" implies it's done forcefully or through brainwashing and is therefore beyond the consumer to fully control

"Essentially driven by greed for profit" Implies that advirtisement is driven by greed and is therefore immoral or highly distasteful

Here's a suggestion for you: if you want to avoid being misunderstood use correct terms to describe your views
SpaceGoatFarts
But HOW do you transform, in your head, that my observations about the effects of advertising (and they DO have an effect) is the same as me saying that advertising is 100% to blame, (i didnt say that) OR that we're powerless to resist it. (didnt say that either) My point was that materialism might still exist even in a stateless society, because there are MORE factors that cause it than just "the state".
Do you understand?
I don't have a problem, YOU just don't understand what i said.
SpaceGoatFarts
And I never said that you did. Clearly you don't defend his view since you don't have any problem with materialism... but maybe you could TRY and refrain from attributing arguments to people that they didn't make, and then blaming THEM for your lack of understanding... people might be less inclined to think you're an aggressive childish asshole stomping about looking for an argument.
Blomsternisse
And I never claimed I defended Stefs view, fucktard
SpaceGoatFarts
Listen MORON, have you WATCHED the video? Do you not understand that my initial comment was in response to what stefan SAID? Did that escape your pea brain? HE has the problem with materialism. HE wants it gone. HE assigns the problem to gov whilst ignoring that it exists in capitalism regardless of gov. Take your point up with HIM that he should respect it. Your question had NO relation to what i said so it made NO fkn sense. Build as many strawmen as you like, it just makes you look dumber.
Blomsternisse
My question did make sense it just so happens to be that I asked it to a fucking idiot.

"What i'm not agreeing with is that materialism is caused by government alone. I think capitalism has a hand in it too"

Whatever materialism is caused by capitialism is the result of voluntary transaction and should be respected. That you still want it gone is your problem not anyone elses.
Add Reply

Ethical Anarchy Panel: Stefan European Disunity - Stefan Molyneux 1 day ago   58:16

Share
A panel from the 2012 Porcupine Freedom Festival - Freedomain Radio is the largest and most popular philosophy show on the web - http://www.freedomainradio.com